PCARS-2 Project Cars 3

Discussion in 'Game Discussion' started by stucar17, Jun 4, 2020.

  1. v8power383

    v8power383 Professional

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    I don't know why this tread has yet again turned in to a project cars vs gran turismo battle and even more so iracing and F1 like really can we try to keep this tread on topic
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  2. its-benny-racer

    its-benny-racer Professional Gold Member

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    It all started when Stu dared to suggest that some aspect of Project Cars 2 was better than GTS, and the usual suspects reacted as expected.. I was just trying to offer support to Stu because I fully agree with his assessment when it comes to feeling what the virtual car is doing on the virtual track. I find the feedback through the wheel to be critical as just using sight and sound to know what the car is doing is simply too slow for me to react fast enough when the car is on the limit.
  3. seth123

    seth123 Professional

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    Because they’re all points for a discussion

    anyway
  4. garyw61

    garyw61 Gary Gold Member Super ROOZ

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  5. Ryzza5

    Ryzza5 Professional

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    I woke up on the same day surprised to see the articles and videos just like everyone else, including the rest of the moderation team. But I have followed things for a long time, so there's a lot I could speculate on.

    Before writing this I found it helpful to go back and watch some videos about NFS Shift. We had ProStreet a few years earlier (I wasn't too into it), and then NFS Undercover which was so awful (reviewing 4/10 iirc). I had splashed out on a Logitech G25 wheel primarily to use with Test Drive Unlimited. I wasn't a sim racer at the time, but I was interested in driving games that supported the wheel and it's 6-speed H shifter. So I ended up with games like GT Legends, GTR2, Race 07, and of course NFS Shift

    My overarching memory was that it was just fun to play. It made racing against opponents exciting since they would occasionally stuff up or even try to take you out on occasion - so it felt a bit more like playing with humans back when we had dodgy ADSL connections with no upload bandwidth. Evidenced by my YouTube videos for it being uploaded in glorious 360p. I probably didn't even have a 1080p monitor back then. The game also rewarded hitting apexes without ruining the immersion by plastering a glowing racing line on the tarmac. Little things like that would move me further towards sim racing which worked well with the wheel and causing me to largely ignore games designed only for gamepads.

    Project CARS 1 was an exciting journey, mainly for the backstage pass in seeing how game development progresses, but at the time was novel for combining realistic driving with amazing graphics (compared to GTR, Race 07, rFactor, and so on). I wasn't too nerdy or anal on what exactly is a simulator or simcade, etc. The game 'simulated' lots of stuff and felt realistic enough to me.

    There was an important PDF brochure made available when WMD was new and accepting sign-ups (before KickStarter was a thing), and I recall part of that discussing their background with full-on simulators like GTR 2 and slightly more casual games like GT and Forza with their massive sales numbers. The original aim was always to be somewhere in between if I'm not mistaken (I can't locate a copy of that PDF to check). But of course the game was considerably funded and steered directly by the community, and the loudest voices were of course looking for a sim, and that's the direction it took. SMS made sure publishing deals allowed them to retain creative control to avoid being forced down an arcade route.

    I don't know much about the development for pCARS 3, but have observed a few things that you may have also noticed:
    * There was no open WMD invitation for the community. A small number of outstanding contributors to the previous games might have been offered contractor positions (i.e. Austin O, Matt York).
    * There were tweets from Ian back in 2018 regarding the 'fun' direction for pC3 and how it would be more a spiritual successor to NFS Shift - they can't use that name though if it belongs to EA.
    * Paul 'Rushy', former director of DriveClub, joined SMS to work on pC3. You can kind of see his influence in the videos that have been released.
    * Late 2019, Ian tweeted about being worth 100 million, how the next pCARS was amazing, and then that they sold to Codies for 30 million.

    I honestly don't think Codies would have had much time to sway the direction of pC3 at all. The game trailer still features Bandai Namco's logo. The 'Shift' vibe was long expected.

    We're assured that the 'sandbox' that was pC2 is still buried in pC3 and fully accessible to those that want it. It would be reassuring to see more of it right about now, but I get the impression we sim racers have to be a bit patient while SMS tries to get the attention of a new audience. I don't doubt that the sim sandbox is still there and that the physics will be familiar to pC2 players. I also don't doubt that the career could be largely ignored and gamey aspects disabled and hidden. The big questions in my view are:
    * Why do pit lanes appear to be closed?, and
    * How will casual players and sim racers go when it comes to avoiding each other in multiplayer lobbies? (Less of an issue for players associated with private leagues like ROOZ).

    As a few of you gents know, I haven't done so much sim racing with a wheel these past few years after moving house, getting married, becoming a product manager, etc, etc. So in a somewhat selfish mindset, I don't mind seeing the next game go down this route. After all...
    * There seems to be an open niche for an exciting racing *game* with realistic physics
    * You don't normally begin building hype for a game by saying how similar it is to the previous version
    * The game was in no part funded by the sim racing community, so SMS don't owe us anything - they can make whatever they want and see who buys it.
    * Larger audience = more sales money, which is probably what investors want.
    * It seems that 70% of sim racers hate everything SMS release anyway, so bother trying to keep pleasing them #
    * There are quite a number of sim racing options available already for such a small market - and it would have been really weird if they released a sim that's 80% identical to Automobalista 2 which uses the same engine (and assets by the looks of things).

    # I wonder if SMS tweets and forum posts saying how amazing their games are actually encourage players to shoot them down a bit. When I watched the PS5 reveal on Friday I didn't get that same vibe from other developers, who instead were more like "Here's a game we've been making - we hope you enjoy it."

    The marketing on this also feels a bit off. I get the feeling the trailer was slated to launch on the same day as the Sony Future of gaming event - but then that event was postponed and no-one told the pC3 marketing team to follow suit. There's no mention of PS5/XSX support for pC3 right now but I don't see it as a concern - I'm sure it will come out (if not at launch, perhaps a few months later).

    If you've made it this far, my takeaway would be:
    * There's a sim still buried in there somewhere, just gotta wait longer for it to be revealed.
    * We don't have to decide right now if we're going to buy it or not - I'm normally against preordering and I've not even seen any preorder bonuses advertised.
    * For those of us on PC, the worst that could happen physics-wise is that we might just have to apply some FFB tweak files again. Perhaps community tweaks for pC2 or FFB from AM2 will find it's way into pC3.

    Some interesting old videos about NFS Shift:




    Well done if you read all of that. Hopefully it was useful.
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  6. stucar17

    stucar17 Moderator Team Raceonoz Gold Member Super ROOZ

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    Great post Ryzza....some very good points.
    Main point i take from your post is that the constant message we are given from SMS in 'We're assured that the 'sandbox' that was PC2 is still buried in PC3 and fully accessible to those that want it'..... This message def gets lost in the online bagging..... That said, however i think all of us are hoping for the few issues the game has to be tidied up, and the guts to be left alone for us to enjoy what we have been dong for the last few years.

    Maybe we will see you back online with us ;)
  7. stucar17

    stucar17 Moderator Team Raceonoz Gold Member Super ROOZ

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    Some interesting info in this interview....


    For those of you who dont want to sit through the 25 mins....main points are..
    - Keeping the guts of the PC2 game
    - 40 new cars including new brands
    - 13 new tracks - with different variants as well (short tracks, GP versions etc)
    - Existing tracks have been reviewed and updated
    - Upgradeable and customizable cars
    - Everything available from day 1 (cars / tracks / weather etc)
    - options available to make things easier for those who want it (better controller handling and assists)
    - New options can be turned off, better dialling back the difficulty
    - No driving line, but a system that shows apexes and brake points. Can be turned off for those who dont want it. (this is what made the vids look arcadey IMO) Explained from 8:10 pretty good explanation of a change thats been in a lot of games for as long as i can remember.....Its also car specific !
    - Career mode is not 'championship' based now.
    - There is 'in game' credits ... Not micro transactions
    - Livery editor in all modes including online mode
    - AI supposed to mere predictable and consistent (good luck with that !)
    - There is a mention of increased bandwidth.... Whatever that means !
    - Sounds like matchmaking available in Multiplayer
    - Scheduled events based on matchmaking / driver ability
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2020
  8. JJ_Penguin

    JJ_Penguin Moderator Team Raceonoz Gold Member

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  9. stucar17

    stucar17 Moderator Team Raceonoz Gold Member Super ROOZ

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    WHAT, someone else actually liking PC2 over something else ! Outrage !
    And that vid xl, is a Beta vid..... Whats your point ?
  10. PaulCox

    PaulCox Team Driver

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    Gt sport has zero feel on the track unless you hit a curb or go off track. It’s just a weighted wheel feeling. Where in pcars2 you feel bumps driving down a straight. Not bashing just different games is all. Even the top utubers who get paid to play and upload say the same thing. 2 different games built differently and both give different experiences.
  11. dn.orr83

    dn.orr83 Rookie

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    Ok... slight deviation from the GT v PC... debate.
    I haven't yet seen any confirmed car/track lists for PC3. What cars and circuits would you like to see included in the game? Not an exhaustive list, but just a handful that are not in PC2. For me, I'd love to see the Brabham BT62, S5000, The Bend and Phillip Island. Obviously a very Aussie selection from me, but what have you got in mind?
  12. garyw61

    garyw61 Gary Gold Member Super ROOZ

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    This.
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  13. dn.orr83

    dn.orr83 Rookie

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    Yeah; So many configurations, so many different types of corners, so difficult to nail a complete lap, so hard (apparently) to set up to have a balanced car the whole way around. Seems like it'd be a great challenge.
  14. stucar17

    stucar17 Moderator Team Raceonoz Gold Member Super ROOZ

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    A deviation is good ....
    13 new tracks, would love to see Phillip island, Adelaide GP track.....
    WIth codemasters now the owners i would imagine they will have a few tracks up their sleeve. So long as they dont have those stupid micky mouse city tracks .... I hate them !
    Cars, not sure..... certainly a bugger variation in TCR or touring cars would be good....
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  15. JonoStan96

    JonoStan96 Legend Gold Member Super ROOZ

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    Provided they don’t add the crappy city tracks, I’m certain you’ll see at least some of the real world tracks featured in the latest GRID in the new PCARS, I’d see it as a massive missed opportunity if they weren’t.
  16. Ryzza5

    Ryzza5 Professional

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    Based on the videos we've seen so far, I do expect some of the new tracks to be city-based and a fair few of the new cars being road cars. I doubt any Codies tracks would be ported across in such a short timespan. The games use different engines and have different on-track features. It would be like saying that Forza should have all of the Project Gotham Racing tracks because Microsoft owned them both.
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  17. its-benny-racer

    its-benny-racer Professional Gold Member

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  18. stucar17

    stucar17 Moderator Team Raceonoz Gold Member Super ROOZ

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    how good would it be to get
    - Adelaide
    - Interlagos (we know this one)
    - Kyalami
    - Montreal
    - Virginia International Raceyway

    A lot of the others on there i dont know by name....
  19. Ryzza5

    Ryzza5 Professional

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    Last edited: Jun 25, 2020
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  20. dn.orr83

    dn.orr83 Rookie

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    Get out your best (race)suit. Buy a bottle of champagne (to spray, not drink). We have a date!

    [​IMG]
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