Discussion in 'GTLOZ Past Seasons' started by Hatfield, Jul 9, 2020.
They won't change what they're doing if there's no repurcussions
I'd like to think with all the hard work going through the replay to find these offences, you would put in a report. I don't think I did any, definitely none on purpose... but if I did and it was warranted then it is what it is.
I suspect that I was one of if not the worst offender. It was never intentional I just struggle to consistently hit the apex of the 2nd to last corner (lack of practice). Most of the time no advantage was gained and regardless of whether or not I gained an advantage I would never attempt a pass after doing so even if I was well within draft range going into the final corner.
People make mistakes and not all of us can hit the perfect line every lap (We’re not div 1). I believe a penalty would only be warranted if a pass was made after exceeding track limits or if someone consistently made no attempt of making the corner (more than a car width from kerb).
I recall two occasions, both mistakes, lifted slightly on the straight to compensate, no advantage gained. Anyway, I don't think these public attempts to get drivers to "look at themselves" really works. There needs to be a private protest to the stewards so the conduct can be reviewed and appropriate penalty applied (or not)
I'd agree with you there @COME_AND_GET_ME7. Throughout the practice runs I would go off the track, albeit accidentally, and I would basically throttle off through the grass section, and wait until I was on the road again to power back on, basically making no headway on any car in front - if anything loosing time.
Was pretty sure I kept it clean though, even to one point as to turn harder and slow down to ensure I stayed within limits lol
But I do think a protest should be put in so the stewards can judge
I didn't see any protest lodged by pm. There were coments on PSN but I diidn't think that was a formal protest.
Track limit violations were handed out for drivers in rounds 1 & 4. Send the stewards a PM via this site.
Protest naming names and in one of them the actual laps given were submitted for round 1, 3 & 4. In all cases a penalty or warnings were given.
I don't mind being a steward but am not going to look at every driver for every lap in every division. Even if I did the criteria is a little vague. In the first round there were a number of drivers who ran wide at the last turn to varying degrees, some obvious and some marginal. Some had 6 or so obvious wide lines over 44 laps. Is that acceptable or is 7 or 8 too many. In round three a driver was reported for 21 out of 27, that was clear for the stewards to award a penalty as it was obviously the norm for that driver to run wide.
This is tricky thing to judge, I assume I offended and I am aware of a couple. I certainly don't deliberately do it, sometimes I entered the corner at too narrow an angle and that takes me too wide or sometimes just get too wide at the apex.
I think the spirit of it is, was it deliberate and was there a tangible gain?, very hard to determine.
If you feel it warrants a protest please do through a pm to myself, viperzed and Jonostan. We will certainly act on it as best we can.
All of this just cements my opinion and reasons for having favorite tracks to race on.
Nurburgring Nordschleife (without GP), Bathurst and Big Willow all have to be driven "on the track" with no places/points to cut corners. Drop a wheel off the track at Willow or Nurb at your own peril, and Bathurst there are walls waiting for you.
Brake too late, turn too early or to late, you have to compensate and adjust, not just continue at the same speed and line and then disregard track limits on entry or exit.
Until this track violation situation is sorted, or if it is not, I will only race on those 3 tracks.
Tokyo is ok too.
Just not on FIA as it's penalty city lol
I believe that most, if not all of the members here at rooz would never intentionally abuse track limits. We're all honest racers, with multiple people admitting to lifting off while outside of the limits, costing them time. However, i also agree that the 3 tracks you mentioned are awesome to race at as making a mistake is so costly
I'll make a couple of things clear. First there is no mention in any of my posts about any 'deliberate' track limit violations. Do they occur..?.. You bet..! Are most of them 'accidental'?.. You bet..!
Nobody likes penalties. It's like asking criminals if they are happy to have a cop shop next to the bank they are thinking of robbing.
Someone hit the nail on the head with 'I slowed down to make the apex and not run wide'... Well bugger me...
WHY is there such a dilemma in staying 'on track' stop kidding yourself that there is no gain (most of the time) Why else are track limits painted on the tarmac? To define the track so that all have an equal opportunity. In the old days it was different because run off areas were not built into the design.
I'll quote Valentino Rossi from this past week. "if you don't penalise them, they will continue to abuse it"
When is a 'pm' not a 'pm'? Forgive my ignorance but does it mean 'personal message'?
I lodged a complaint but also offered an assisted solution. I heard nothing back.
It's not totally time consuming to do a track limits check, even with a 58 lap race. There's no science or deliberation required. If it's out... It's out. Couldn't be any more simple and importantly... It's totally fair and without discrimination.
My problem is that when I do something, I try and do it well. Unfortunately it comes with the annoying traces of perfectionism.
Send an inbox on this website to @Viperzed, @JonoStan96 and @emmo46 (there's a thread somewhere that goes into more detail) And after having done a track limits protest myself, it took me 15 minutes to pan over one driver, making sure they were over the limit. So yes, asking the stewards to take the time to do that is silly, especially when they are already dealing with other protests.
PM = Private Message in most contexts like these forums. At the top right of this page is link that says Inbox, hover over that with your cursor and you'll a link "Start a new conversation" (it's the place where your private team discussion posts appear). Click that to start a new conversation with the stewards. Here's the direct link...http://raceonoz.com/forums/index.php?conversations/add
In that you can name name names in anonymity* and even provide the video evidence if so inclined - they'll at least need a replay to watch.
In your post that showed the count, 1 or 2 might be considered accidental (missed the brake marker, lapse of concentration) but 15 is either deliberate or carelessness and needs to be dealt with to either penalise the abuse or alert the driver to their carelessness.
* of course the bird may have flown....
The effect of my posts have had some of the result I had hoped for. Some will at least think about things. Never has it been my intention to name or shame anyone.
I'm very aware of the task of stewards. Perhaps we should double their wages...
2 x 0 = 0
Intent is one thing, perception is another. The former is often lost in a written medium such as this forum and two are frequently misaligned. In my view the best action likely to result in a productive outcome is a PM to the stewards rather than a public discourse