Learnings from S13, what to keep/change for S14

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo Sunday Night League' started by Hatfield, Nov 20, 2020.

  1. Hatfield

    Hatfield GT Sport League & Teams Championship Organiser Team Raceonoz Gold Member Super ROOZ

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    I was planning to open this end of season but why not start now!

    So please input ideas/problems/solutions moving forward to S14 next year

    Do we stay with this new format, or go back to the old one?

    Personally, I would like to continue with the new format with some tweaks/changes.
    • Penalties should be taken into account when deciding on someone's room placement
      • We had some issues of the offending driver not dropping when the driver who was disadvantaged did drop
    • If a driver drops down a room and believe this was mainly because of something that was not their fault, they may ask me to stay in their current room (this PM would need full justification as to why [with footage] and the decision would be completely subjective by myself)
      • If it isn't their fault and they drop, more chance they just dominate the race and move back up again which goes against my want of close racing for everyone
    • with 5 rooms, change to only 3 divisions
      • Division 1 - the drivers who are regularly in room 1 and drivers who consistently jump up from room 2
      • Division 2 - the drivers who are regularly room 2-3
      • Division 3 - the drivers who are regularly room 4-5
        • (although with our current split I think the top end of room 4 might fit better in Div2 for this example)
    • Change in R1Qually
      • instead of Fastest Lap in a 45min session, we run a series of 3-5 lap races
      • then we take the total time results of all of these and each driver is assigned their best one which places them into their rooms
        • R1 would then have normal qualifying
      • Yes, large 16 car grids in R1Q would create problems with the short races, so we would need to get a list of drivers who could host rooms and try to have multiple smaller car rooms consisting of drivers of varying pace levels
        • eg. this season we have approx 17 possible Room hosts & about 80 total drivers so R1Q could have 17 rooms of 4-5 drivers, then run 4-5 short races on the night giving everyone that many opportunities to run a 'consistency qualifying'
    If you have anymore ideas/problems/solutions/thoughts/opinions let them out!!
  2. Matthyus

    Matthyus GTLOZ Results Steward Team Raceonoz Gold Member

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    Set divisions prior to Season start. (we can use our pre-existing data for this)
    The amount of work and rework needed to provide charts is mind numbing.
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  3. CAB77

    CAB77 Team Driver Gold Member

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    I would like to keep this format just not at the expense of burning out the guys behind the scenes. I'm enjoy the changing of drivers in the room as it adds a little bit of change from week to week so we can race and learn against other drivers. So if 3 divisions which I like this idea helps with the workload then I'm all for it.

    The only change I would like to see is using total race time with a time penalty to the higher rooms for the points system. Just putting this in this thread so it is all in the right place. I feel this would add a little more to the championship table. Specially if you can still beat your rival on time even with the time penalty when they are in the room above you by 1 spot. This gives you the reward for the track that you are good at. I can think of many scenarios where this is a good thing. Faster rooms will still be an advantage. Both with the time penalty scenario and the in general quicker race so you're not getting held up as much on track.

    I have also seen arguments for missing weeks. I do feel that missing 1 week is fine as long as it is advised before Friday so that your spot can be filled from the room below if need be. You can return to the room that you last qualified for. If missing a 2nd week in 1 season maybe a room drop as a penalty can be brought in. This again isn't as bad as it sounds if the scoring was done on race times and not just rooms. I think not knowing where you came overall for a day or 2 will add to suspense specially towards the end of the season.

    At the end of the day I have enjoyed the format this season. Already looking forward to the next season.
  4. T F Eccles

    T F Eccles Team Driver Gold Member

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    Genuine question, in the context of this format, what are the Divs for?
  5. Hatfield

    Hatfield GT Sport League & Teams Championship Organiser Team Raceonoz Gold Member Super ROOZ

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    points tables so mid-low pace drivers have something to aim for in a championship setting instead of just 'making up the numbers' as some would say
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  6. Viperzed

    Viperzed Professional Gold Member

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    Ditto to Matthyus.

    Agree with everything you've said except, Please don't make R1Q a set of races lol. The 45 min quali session was absolutely amazing and has been my fav session by far. Races just open up oppurtunity for people to make stupid mistakes and get a bit too excited trying to pass in what is effectively a quali session.
  7. T F Eccles

    T F Eccles Team Driver Gold Member

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    The 'race within a race' that Max referred to. OK, fair enough.
  8. T F Eccles

    T F Eccles Team Driver Gold Member

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    To clarify @CAB77, you're saying rank everyone by race time (with some time penalty in the mix) and then allocate points on that ranking?
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  9. CAB77

    CAB77 Team Driver Gold Member

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    Yes so affectively it's a time trial against other drivers while racing.

    I know this works as this is how a lot of Slot Car racing is done. I have been in fields of 70 plus slot cars where it is 9 individual races. Highest overall lap total wins. This is also sorted by qualifying with the fastest 8 drivers in the 1 heat all the way down to the slowest 8. The slowest heats actually had 7 to make it work.
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  10. Easyprey007

    Easyprey007 Team Driver Gold Member

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    The guys in the background do an increadable job my only suggestion is KIS and fair. I left the last s out coz no one is stupid
  11. VARDZ

    VARDZ Professional Gold Member

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    I think the qually should consist not 1 track but 3, take the average time from the 3 times set and you will a have a clearer picture of where everyone is truly at... run each track for somewhere between 20 -30 mins at tracks that have 80-100 sec laps which will give your somewhere between 12 -18 laps... run them at tracks that get votes ranging from most popular to least so you get tracks that will have a close spread of times along with a wider spread...
  12. SPye2_WAU

    SPye2_WAU Rookie

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    The points scored this season should determine the divisions for next season. The driver lineup should remain the same throughout, because I don't want the rooms to change each week.
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  13. Xtr3meNZer

    Xtr3meNZer Team Driver Gold Member

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    I'm a big fan of the three divisions idea, with fluid rooms each week. The desire to push up and try the next room up is very appealing. I know I want to get back to room 2 for another push, I reckon I could have done better and I think it's going to help motivate others also.

    I liked the 45 min qualifying session also. One track as voted by all after the season car has been chosen :)
    CAB77 likes this.
  14. BKXI

    BKXI Rookie

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    I know I’ve done bare minimum racing in ROOZ but personally I’d like to see this current format scrapped. Personally I don’t actually know what I’m meant to be racing for except for a placement in a higher room, which ultimately means nothing to me anyway. I don’t have as much motivation as I should for this because I simply feel like I’m not racing for anything. If there were actually set tiers from day 1 and no alternating between rooms there’d be an end goal of a Drivers Championship. But right now it feels like I’m not actually fighting for anything, just my opinion though
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  15. Tony4Fingerz

    Tony4Fingerz Rookie Gold Member

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    I feel the same way, I’m by no means a chance of winning a div anytime soon but this format just feels like laps. With faster guys dropping down and guys going up and coming back with higher points means even if I have a few good rounds I won’t move up the standings in the div. There’s no motivation for me a all really.
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  16. leeboy910

    leeboy910 Professional Gold Member

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    I don't mind the format, but it is slightly demotivating if placed into a room with blokes who really should be higher, and they are lapping 2-4 seconds faster per lap! The idea is good, but different ways of thinking will mean there will be some folks who don't like it at all.

    Would anyone prefer the option of MORE rooms and more divisions, to increase the chances of having more closely matched opponents and less chance of field spread? Almost feels like two or more races within races currently, even though we've got equal equipment.
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  17. THE_UNDER_STUDY

    THE_UNDER_STUDY Team Driver Gold Member

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    Now I don't have finger in this pie, but if I understand this correctly, this is something we are trying in the SPCC Rebel Cup. We have 26 drivers that we have split into 4 groups over two rooms. These groups are put in a roster and swap between each other per round as the pic below shows.
    [​IMG]

    The two rooms race on the night and the drivers overall time decide placings for the round, from 1st to 26th. (or how ever many are racing.) Bonus points are awarded for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd in each room.
    The sticking point for the Sunday league with this system is that we use a Divisional ballast with success ballast to even out the drivers to the best we can, (funnily enough, piggybacking off the Sunday Leagues current Divisions.) With such a large entry list in the SL, going down the route of ballast would be a nightmare. Not sure if a time handicap would work. But again could just create issues.
    *Also we are only one round in too, so this format is in its infancy.
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  18. Peersy

    Peersy Team Driver Gold Member

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    I think that could work, especially for us down in div 5 and 4 where the skill and knowledge of the tracks is very limited.
    I like the overall concept though this season, but the guys going up and down have an advantage of earning more points compared to a mid-top consistent entrant for a division. , might be worth looking at @VARDZ idea, that would tighten and even up the rooms if we were to lock in set divisions.
  19. T F Eccles

    T F Eccles Team Driver Gold Member

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    We should be able to model that at the end of the season using the collected data. Would be interesting to see how it shkaes out compared to what we are doing now.
  20. emmo46

    emmo46 Steward Team Raceonoz Gold Member Super ROOZ

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    I have found that my two best performances have earned the least points, a bad performance one week leads to demotion and less points available for a better performance the next week.
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