RACEONOZ Penalty Table

Discussion in 'Sunday Night Gran Turismo' started by Hatfield, Nov 28, 2016.

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  1. Crunch

    Crunch Active Driver Gold Member

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    I'll explain why it's become an issue:

    Hypothetically, a lot of people got away with murder. They broke the rules and didn't go to jail.

    That's why.

    You may not care about the integrity of the racing here, but I do. A lot of other people care about integrity too.

    Secondly, ROOZ is easily the most civil website I visit on the internet. People act worse on Facebook than they do here.

    Thirdly, the moderators have power because... they literally control the rules and what happens. It is through the genuine love and dedication of the moderators that they care and listen to people here instead of being ruthless and not caring. It is fundamentally how they foster a friendly and renowned environment. Other leagues lose reputation because moderators do not care.

    The fact that you are arguing that your basic emotional needs as a human shouldn't be met is extremely disturbing. I am quite serious when I say that you might enjoy living in North Korea if you don't wish for moderators or leaders to take your concerns, your wishes or your grievances seriously. There isn't a day that I take the situation here for granted. It is a goddamn blessing that the moderators here are so kind, so forthright, so forgiving, so passionate and so eager to please the entire community.

    I don't know what to think of your response literally arguing that it would be better for the community to be completely silenced. It's utterly shocking that you could say such things... Unbelieveable...
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  2. Zachery

    Zachery Professional Driver Gold Member

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    Spot on mate. This is part of the reason why i stopped racing here. Has just become a PITA honestly
  3. Half-Byte

    Half-Byte Member Gold Member

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    I know that this will sound like I'm treading old waters, but if a "community" is silenced how do the operators of said "community" listen to their members and then change the negatives into positives. Much like how an employer would listen to his work staff and change certain workplace issues/attitudes into a positive environment.
    If there is no freedom of speech within the forums then there will be no community input for the mods to base their rulings on. Then leading them to more hate by the community.
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  4. WOLFYDADDY007

    WOLFYDADDY007 Member

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    @Crunch i'm really happy that a few months ago when I said to you that not to pay attention to the loud voices out there because there was a silent majority that reads the threads and says nothing and that you say it for some of us who can't say it as eloquently as you do. Getting away with murder is such a great illustration. The bullying by some was rampant now there is just smatterings of it. Now its time for the racing to be cleaned up some are not going to like it because they won't be able to use others as brakes or to shove down the inside and stuff the consequences now we all have to be aware of others and give them the respect of being on the track with us they are the ones who give us the enjoyment of THE RACE other wise we might as well race AI opponents. When it comes to rules ai's strictly adhere to their programmers rules where our opponents are human and err is part of their racing which brings its own type of enjoyment.

    So my racing buddies I prefer you over AI's anytime but we have a way to go so that all may enjoy the ROOZ now and in the future that's what this is all about so when someone joins it's the same for that driver as it is for the one whose been a member for multiple seasons.

    I reiterate what you said about our organisers they do care and it shows that's why I'm still here and a gold member why don't all who have a quote put their money where their mouth is. Wolfy:cool:
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  5. stucar17

    stucar17 Moderator Team Raceonoz Gold Member Super ROOZ

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    *sigh*
    With all due respect zach, what has become a pain in the arse? 1. you're not racing any more and 2 if putting forward your opinion on anything here was a PITA then why did / do you bother ?

    Clarification of the rules we have been using since long before i got here isn't the pain in the arse, its the inevitable variations, interpretations and implementation that has proved to be a pain in the arse. I suppose that is the case in any series, anywhere in the world so more fool me for being surprised.

    When i was asked to be a mod, i accepted in the hope i could add something. I certainly didn't accept in the hope that a " "collation of already existing rules" would be followed by 14 pages of well thought out comments, debate, snide comments and whinging. (yes we covered the whole spectrum there)

    I agree 100% the protest and appeals process needed to be tidied up. We have done that, and along with the stewards group this is, i believe, a good thing for us all.

    We are moving on now, using the table as a guide and we will make changes if needed to make things easy for us all.
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  6. Zachery

    Zachery Professional Driver Gold Member

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    The back and forth over people cutting a damn line has became a PITA mate. its well and good to have rules, but when theyre set out,not followed, and then the penalties that were debated and then agreed upon arent even handed down is just dumb. it used to be a bunch of blokes getting together to race on a sunday night. used to be a case of 'use your common sense and dont ram people' now its 'lets have a debate about every tiny aspect' and take everything personally. its a joke.

    its not fun anymore, when it used to be quite a good time on here. If i wasnt still participating (even if its just the 100% F1 races, on Controller) i wouldnt care. but at the end of the day, even if im selling my gear and racing on controller, this crap still affects me. its okay because this round is the last 100% race of the series anyway, so youll be rid of me for a while.

    its all good to set out rules and whatnot, but when the first issue arises and then the heavily debated consequences arent even applied. it makes it all seem like a bit of a joke.
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2017
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  7. Beau_Albert

    Beau_Albert Professional Driver Gold Member

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    I agree that Penalties not being handed out for a clear breach of rules is highly questionable and i'm not particularly keen either, but perhaps make a post regarding why/what you think could be improved rather than calling it a :):):):)show and making unnecessary posts arguing with still-active members with whom these rules will affect.
  8. Zachery

    Zachery Professional Driver Gold Member

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    it could be improved by doing what was agreed upon in the first place lol.

    Also, My apologies, ill refrain from angy outbusrts in future in the interest of causing more grief than i already have.

    Please note: the second part of this post was not directed at Beau, or anyone in particular.
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2017
  9. stucar17

    stucar17 Moderator Team Raceonoz Gold Member Super ROOZ

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    Wolfy, what i dont understand is your wording "Now its time for the racing to be cleaned up some are not going to like it because they won't be able to use others as brakes or to shove down the inside and stuff the consequences".
    THERE HAVE ALWAYS BEEN CONSEQUENCES. The rules have not changed to the point where it has EVER been acceptable to use someone as a brake, or driving without consequences. The rules have been the same for the last 40 odd seasons we have raced. Many drivers hadn't bothered to read them, even though they had been there all along. Those that hadn't, copped a penalty where warranted, when there was a protest against them. IF you had been used as a brake

    I have to take exception to the comment (and TBH i am pretty disappointed by it) "enjoy the ROOZ now and in the future that's what this is all about so when someone joins it's the same for that driver as it is for the one who's been a member for multiple seasons".

    I want to make PERFECTLY CLEAR to you and EVERYONE, that any insinuation that there has been favourites played, by those adjudicating on protests is well wide of the mark.

    EVERY protest i have looked at, and to the best of my knowledge, looked at by the mod team or captains, has been looked at in good faith, ruled on and that driver has had the right to appeal the decision. Those decisions ahve always been debatable, and as with ALMOST EVERY decision, it could be argued one way or the other.

    Im not sure if its my interpretation of what you are writing, but AGAIN, The review, penalty table and rules have only been collated. THEY ARE NOT A NEW THING ! They have ALWAYS been on the forum, and we have ALWAYS taken our rulings from them.

    I think when we start to get into analogies of penalties for murder and comparing them to penalties for clipping a pit exit line where no drivers or cars have been impeded, and no one has cheated for their benefit, we may be getting a little too serious.

    Thats all i will say.....am moving on to doing some racing
  10. stucar17

    stucar17 Moderator Team Raceonoz Gold Member Super ROOZ

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    Dont disagree with that
  11. apex2691

    apex2691 Member

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    The discussion about crossing a white (actually yellow) lines has arisen due to the broken lines being considered unbroken lines for the Tokyo race. This didn't decrease, it increased the rules, or at least changed them for the Tokyo race.
    I myself through ignorance (which is no defense) committed the error of crossing the broken yellow lines on exit and should have been penalized accordingly.

    1/ This whole scenario could have been avoided by respecting drivers ability/commonsense to have caution and only cross broken lines when safe/clear to do so.
    2/ Or secondly for all room captains to remind drivers of the rule changes for a race prior to commencement on the night. Some were reminded straight after the race had finished, which elicits questioning of motives. (The race brief should be read by all drivers, but there will be times drivers don't get the chance due to time, or misunderstand the brief)

    Importantly I don't think anybody felt hard done by with the penalties not being enforced. Including myself who would have gained from the penalties being enforced, as others crossed the broken lines twice.
    So I believe alls well that ends well, the moderators I believe took the right course of action, and we all can live and learn from the scenario.
    Also respect is paramount in this forum to other drivers and above all to the moderators. Personal attacks look grubby and achieve nothing.
  12. disturboed

    disturboed Damian Hall Super ROOZ

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    I'm sorry Wolfy, but if I was asked to rate this statement(s) on a scale of 1 to 10 with 1 being Strongly Agree and 10 being Strongly Disagree I would rate it a 1,000,000.

    That's a pretty bold insinuation with absolutely nothing to back it up with. Bit of a slap in the face.

    And now there is a difference between those who have financially contributed vs those who haven't? Nice.

    I agree with Stu 100%, he has basically said everything I was going to say.
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  13. Half-Byte

    Half-Byte Member Gold Member

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    It's not bold neither a slap in the face. Every member should be dealt with the same system/rules/ equality. If you disagree withe that then you are saying that people deserve special treatment because they are more well known or much more well liked in the community than others.
  14. emmo46

    emmo46 GTLOZ Results Steward Team Raceonoz Gold Member Super ROOZ

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    So who is getting special treatment??
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  15. Knuckles

    Knuckles Active Driver

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    I would say the 25 odd or however many did the pit lane thing got some fortunate special treatment. I was one of those and haven't taken it for granted. Ive also moved on and ready to get back to racing now.
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  16. emmo46

    emmo46 GTLOZ Results Steward Team Raceonoz Gold Member Super ROOZ

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    I'm not happy with what you are implying here, please back that up by informing us of the new member that was treated differently to someone whose been a member for multiple seasons. You can do it in a PM if you wish.
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  17. WOLFYDADDY007

    WOLFYDADDY007 Member

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    @stucar17 you have a strong opinion that's ok when I first came to ROOZ there was extreme flagrant disregard for the rules eg the strong profanity that was called banter then a driver was penalised for the heat of the moment slip of the tongue but on the thread people who had plenty of time to think about what they were writing were let off Scott free. Then when someone like @Crunch was writing a really in my opinion cool reply to an incident he articulated very well was ganged up on. Stu I only wanted my post to be positive under no circumstances did I infer negativity I'm only looking to the future of ROOZ. I look at ROOZ now and believe it's far better than what it was. But there is still a long way to go. If people want the old ROOZ back I've got to ask why. :cool:
  18. disturboed

    disturboed Damian Hall Super ROOZ

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    I'm not disagreeing with the notion of equal treatment for all. I would be a big proponent for that, and my actions/recommendations/decisions will show that.

    The statement I quoted insinuated that previously there was no equal treatment and certain members received favourable treatment over others which is one of the things I totally disagree with. As someone who has been involved in the protest & appeals process, then yes, this is a massive slap in the face.

    Like Stu, I'm still not clear on how anyone who thinks they can use others as brake assists for example will feel any less inclined to do so now. The no collision rule has always been there (along with all the rest), right from the day I joined this league when it was on Whirlpool when GT5 was released.
  19. Zachery

    Zachery Professional Driver Gold Member

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    I was involved in this 'incident' on the forum if im thinking of the right one, and i must let you know i, and the others involved were all strongly put on notice that if our behaviour continued that we would be banned for a period of time.

    Just because we werent publicly told off, doesnt mean we didnt all receive strongly worded Private messages telling us to cut it out or there would be consequences. The offending posts were then deleted.

    Just writing this to let you know we were actually reprimanded because of it, just not publicly.
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  20. stucar17

    stucar17 Moderator Team Raceonoz Gold Member Super ROOZ

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    No one !

    While im pretty certain we arent perfect, the "old ROOZ" seemed to do pretty well. 40 odd seasons would attest to that. With so many different drivers, series and hard "racing' there are always going to incidents and differing opinions on penalties or what should be done about it .....

    This is correct. The difference now is that any 'protests' will have the verdict made public in the interest of transparency. Members who step out of line 'off track' will be sanctioned / warned privately.


    I think this can be locked now guys....TBH, some of the comments have been a little over the top and i think we just need to get back to racing and calm down before things get out of hand when they don't need to.

    For the last time, i want to assure EVERYONE, regardless of platform
    - there has NEVER been any favouritism regardless of how long or short a driver has been here
    - Protest decisions have ALWAYS been made on the evidence available
    - We will continue to TRY to provide the best platform for clean, organized racing.
    - If you wish to protest an incident, do it through the right channels and the newly formed stewards group will work through the process.
    - The mod team reserve the right to adjust the rules and regs to suit the community at any given time. These decisions are made as a mod group, and not taken solely.

    Peace ...... out ........race hard but fair
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