RACEONOZ Penalty Table

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo Sunday Night' started by Hatfield, Nov 28, 2016.

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  1. stucar17

    stucar17 Moderator Team Raceonoz Gold Member Super ROOZ

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    True...

    at this stage we are looking at having 2 pcars drivers, 2 GT6 drivers and 1 mod....is a process to go through here, with limited time so please bear with us while we sort through it !
  2. Viperzed

    Viperzed GT7 League Organiser Team Raceonoz Gold Member Super ROOZ

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    I cannot agree more with this, I've fallen victim to it once in the past....
  3. Hatfield

    Hatfield GT7 League & Teams Championship Organiser Team Raceonoz Gold Member Super ROOZ

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  4. Crunch

    Crunch Professional

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    Some considerations that occurred to me:

    1.
    'Cut Pit Entry Lines FOR ADVANTAGE' - 25 seconds
    'Cut Pit Entry Lines FOR ADVANTAGE' - 25 seconds

    My inner lawyer says that the words 'FOR ADVANTAGE' are nebulous and open to heaps of contention. You can only go so fast on tarmac anyway.

    I believe you should get rid of that term and simply give everyone a slap on the wrist:

    'Cut Pit Entry Lines (2 tyres or more over the line)' - 5 seconds
    'Cut Pit Exit Lines (2 tyres or more over the line)' - 5 seconds

    That'll keep everyone within the lines. Like in tennis, two tyres on the line is IN. =P

    2.
    'Track Limit Extension - Consistently done for Time Gain'

    Please define the word 'consistently'. I have no idea whether that means 3 laps in a row at the same location on the track, or 5 separate cuts at completely different corners over 2 laps, or 8 total times across the entire race at any corner.

    What is consistent cutting, and what isn't? Does intention matter? Are there going to be specific points on track where this matters, or can I (if I want to gain by reviewing someone else's car) look at someone else's race and tally how many times they cut a corner or go wide?

    Also, I believe there is a little formatting error, in that, some lines without a hyphen at the front have penalties after them, and then subheadings connote the specific examples of them, and sometimes the specific examples have times while the headings do not. Relevantly, it looks like a 'Track Limit Extension - Consistently done for Time Gain' can ONLY be '-CORNER CUTTING: CONSISTENT', because that line does not have times attached to it that separate a track extension from a track cut in relevant categorisation.

    3.
    What's an 'Unsafe Return to Track from Pit Exit'?

    If that's a separate offense, it should stack with the pit exit lines to make a penalty of 50 seconds. Is that the aim?

    4.
    I don't see a jurisprudential reason why the first two protected powers or 'Notes' should exist as all, if the penalty table is as rigorous as it is. it covers every offence that could be committed during a race weekend, so why have that protected power to upgrade the sentence if it'll be incredibly rare anyway? I understand it would allow flexibility, but because this is a social league anyway, the admins and stewards aren't going to be practising rigorous legal formalism like a judge anyway, and admins and stewards will have the power to do whatever they like within the confines of what I'd call 'social capital' (what you can get away with without making the community angry and being overthrown).

    The third Note coloured Red also has the same problem. It's pretty superfluous and doesn't mean much. Instead of notes, outlining administrative provisions (how the table actually works) would be a lot more helpful. I discovered this recently myself (here's an example (self-indulgent plug, I know =/ ): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7JjwFKoQX4-cHI0aVZLZ1F0cHM/view )

    ----

    Otherwise, I like it!

    And feel free to ignore my sorry arse if you're close to getting triggered because I don't mean to offend anybody ever and I hate that people think I like the rocking the boat and putting my neck in a guillotine as if I'm a sadistic troll when all I want to do is help the community.
  5. Hatfield

    Hatfield GT7 League & Teams Championship Organiser Team Raceonoz Gold Member Super ROOZ

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    remind me to get to replying to this tomorrow when I have more time
  6. JonoStan96

    JonoStan96 Legend Gold Member Super ROOZ

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    You'll need a lot of time my friend.
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  7. Benjamin J Smith

    Benjamin J Smith Professional Gold Member

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    So it's ok for you too take the piss????? Anyway glad someone said they would reply to it, everyone else just looks at it and goes :):):):) me ..again???
  8. Hatfield

    Hatfield GT7 League & Teams Championship Organiser Team Raceonoz Gold Member Super ROOZ

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    1. people can interpret anything in many ways... inner lawyer isn't required for that ;)
    but basically you suggest 5 secs instead of 25 for cutting the lines

    2.consistently
    kənˈsɪst(ə)ntli/
    adverb
    1. in every case or on every occasion; invariably.
      "the vehicle consistently outperforms some of the best competitors"
    2. in a fair and impartial way.
      "students have to be treated consistently by all staff members"
    If someone, sees someone else cutting corners and they feel that it is not on, protest them with footage from your replay and the stewards group will decide. (intention of course matters, and can be decided by stewards)
    Also FYI if you look at the original pages @stucar17 had written up with penalties etc listed, it had CAPITALISED sections which I have incorporated into the table as the CAPITALISED lines so that it is consistent with the original rules of ROOZ.

    3. if the cut exit line penalty is 25 secs, then IMO the unsafe pit exit wouldn't need to stack with it. It is there because if you don't cut the pit exit line, you could still make an unsafe rejoin after that

    4. Is your favourite word 'jurisprudential' ? I would tell you my favourite word but it would get blocked by the censorship smileys ;)
    You said 'I understand it would allow flexibility'
    So don't worry about it ;)
    Also,

    Note: notes are notes.

    "Otherwise, I like it! "

    Me too!!
  9. arakasi-

    arakasi- Professional

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    Ornithorhynchus is my favourite word. It also has my 2nd fave if you use 4 of the letters
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  10. Benjamin J Smith

    Benjamin J Smith Professional Gold Member

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    Is that word :)front;)bum:)??
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2017
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  11. WOLFYDADDY007

    WOLFYDADDY007 Team Driver

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    It's really time to start applying the penalties then the ones you are always trying to force issues will think twice about doing it. Right now it's relying on people's best intentions which lets be serious on a good day they have race etiquette but on a bad day out the window it goes bath water baby and dummy. Publish the protest and the penalty those in the race will know all about it because they have a replay to look at. Eg " Incident Driver #8 & #27 under review." Then "Driver #8 penalised 5secs" no appeal unless the team captain wants to pay money for the appeal from their next seasons fund for the auction. If your innocent you don't have to appeal. The replay and the other drivers will know who is guilty. If there is mismanagement by an arbitrator all will know. That brings me to my next point maybe arbitrators should be voted for then if he or she does a bad job they won't be there next season. Anyway that's my 2 cents hope I've got some of you thinking. :cool:
  12. Hatfield

    Hatfield GT7 League & Teams Championship Organiser Team Raceonoz Gold Member Super ROOZ

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    no point including teams championship budget. that should be separate to all this. Teams champ is just a bit of fun :)
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  13. Half-Byte

    Half-Byte Rookie Gold Member

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    Maybe
    giving an appeals budget of "points" maybe it seems to work in cricket lol
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  14. Crunch

    Crunch Professional

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    I appreciate your response as specific answers to those considerations, but still feel that said answers are rather unsatisfactory.

    If I were to summarise what you're saying (what I interpret from your explanation), you're saying:

    1.
    Don't worry. The stewards get to decide what 'advantage' means. The word is only there to create deliberate confusion or grey area so that the stewards have something to hide behind no matter what decision they make, and ultimately the table doesn't provide the clarity that it was originally created for.

    2.
    Don't worry. The stewards get to decide what 'consistently' means. The word is only there to create deliberate confusion or grey area so that the stewards have something to hide behind no matter what decision they make, and ultimately the table doesn't provide the clarity that it was originally created for.

    3.
    An unsafe exit has to do with unsafely merging into traffic, which makes sense to an extent.

    4.
    Don't worry. The stewards have unlimited power, just in case you were concerned that the stewards didn't have enough power to punish wrongdoers.

    ----

    If everyone is satisfied with those answers, then I'll shut my mouth. If everyone enjoys having fairness stolen from them, then I'll shut my mouth.
    It's not that hard to think of how the rules will apply before the season begins ... instead of making it up as it goes along. I could easily write up complete rules and procedures in a week that's close to bullet-proof... but people don't want me to because I'm the most vocal or something. I don't know anymore...

    --

    Also, in regards to the costing of appeals, I have to disagree with that unfortunately. Justice and fairness should be free for everyone. A fair go is what this country was built on.

    Just like in tennis, if your challenge is successful, there's no problem. If you get 3 unsuccessful challenges in a short time frame, you run out of challenges. This is standard stuff to stop wasting 'court' resources. I don't see why we couldn't replicate such a system to discourage flippant or vexatious 'litigation' as it were.

    Third protest that doesn't stick = banned from protesting for the rest of the season. You shouldn't be charged for disagreeing with an original decision. You should be allowed a voice.

    Am I making sense or ... ?
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  15. Zachery

    Zachery Professional

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    I think youre massively overthinking it. The stewards dont have unlimited power, and you know it. Do you have reason to mistrust them?
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  16. Beau_Albert

    Beau_Albert World Champion

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    Was there really a need to copy the same paragraph twice and simply replace a single word? This isn't an essay with a minimum word target, it also kind of ruins the impact of your post as i'm not sure there are many interested in reading a paragraph twice.
    Regardless, there will always be a grey area no matter how stringent the rule books are. That's how it is. Formula One is incredibly precise with it's regulations, yet in 2009 there was a major grey area concerning the Diffusers. No rule is fool-proof, so just put some faith in your moderators to provide fair and consistant rulings.
    Sam D Blacklock, Anthonyb and Zachery like this.
  17. Anthonyb

    Anthonyb World Champion Gold Member

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    Word it correctly and fairly so we all get a fair hearing (if we do something wrong) so there is no grey area's. If you can do that for us I'm sure hat would like it too.
    seth123 and Zachery like this.
  18. its-benny-racer

    its-benny-racer Professional Gold Member

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    Anyone would think we were talking about a life or death penalty table..
    [​IMG]
  19. seth123

    seth123 Professional

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    To some yes... :roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:
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  20. Zachery

    Zachery Professional

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    No joke man, before you know it ill be going to the supreme court for a racing incident on PCars.
    seth123 likes this.
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