Season 14: The Tifosi Have Spoken!

@marty
Moving across the braking zone contributed to both incidents that happened in practice between us. Forcing the driver behind to change line during braking only extends their braking distance, so you have to assume the potential for contact when they have already committed to their braking point.

Practice Incident #1 – Having to steer while braking compromised my braking and I continued to move to the inside, which put me on a very tight line, one I thought I could make. Ultimately, I hit the lock stops trying to make the corner and basically misjudged the car turning circle, guilty as charged. I didn’t make that same mistake again.



Practice Incident #2 – As the video shows I committed to an attack up the inside when I started braking, and you once again drive across my path. You can see that I react and that this affects my grip (if you watch my steering inputs), so I go deeper into the corner and immediately recommit to taking a wider line, when you suddenly veer left into my path (for reasons you still haven’t explained). I don’t see how this contact was avoidable. I give this 50/50 – racing incident at worst. It looks like you over-committed and decide to bail out last minute whilst locking up, so not sure where I was supposed to go.

Race incident – Your replay and the server log show you actually turn in on me immediately after I finished locking up both front wheels. It’s really not up to me to accommodate your preferred line into the hair-pin and I didn’t run you off the road. Obstructing is just part of a solid defense. If I was dive bombing (as you continue to accuse me of doing), I would have thought it wiser of you to wait for me to sail on through and then perform a switch-back move, but that was not the case here.

Anyway, happy to finish 4th, good race overall compared to the last one where I got taken out early.

I assume you are serious? you don't have to accommodate for my preferred line at the hairpin but I am meant to accommodate for you out braking yourself locking up running wide. So your normal line is to continue straight and wide there especially when a car is outside? Maybe you made an error and locked up or maybe you wanted to drive me off the track. I see it as pretty simple and much like the other incidents here, you simply got passed and so desperately tried to out brake me and failed again so at this point it was a perfect 3 hits from your first 3 attempts at out braking me into that corner.


Here is another angle in slow motion. So you are making a solid defence here its not just a basic error? why are you trying to turn but the car goes straight.


Here you aren't dive bombing me and I am meant to do what else? I have gone fully off the track accommodating for your error again, yet you still hit me as that wasn't accommodating enough. You have no hope of making the corner and leaving me any track on exit but again contact is not your fault in any way. I take it this is also part of that solid defence strategy though its my fault as I cant turn in to the hairpin where I want to, but need to accommodate what you want to do from 3 cars back. I did start to turn in and saw the dive bomb coming so straightened out as otherwise you would have hit me sooner, I don't need to leave you any room at the apex when your nowhere at the brake zone. If you brake so late you cant make the corner and not make contact then you braked too late aka a dive bomb.


This one your not as far back, I was too deep still locked up and missed the apex. You still ran up the back of me while never even getting alongside when I was already pretty much off track, so would have gone even wider then I did. Not sure how I was to accommodate for your driving even though you are free to do as you like it seems. The second angle shows it much better and clearly shows how big a mistake you made trying to out brake me again but you just out braked yourself again.

It was private Parkour did say to ask the community so I did.

Its more about driving standards and one of those was lap 1 of the main race though he says its again my fault for turning into him. Id like to see how others see any of those incidents and its nothing personal. I just cant see how his interpretation of making 3 similar errors in a row at the same corner are somehow my fault. Maybe it could be moved to another thread re racing incidents or something.

If somehow we both clearly see things so differently some discussion with others could be interesting and can help people to understand what expected driving standards are. Sure everyone makes mistakes but if they dont even know they are mistakes how can they learn from it and avoid doing it again.

The other post I made was just trying to clarify his interpretation in all 3 incidents as I personally cant see how he comes to that conclusion.

I think in regards to drivers standards....

1. When your braking you should be braking in a straight line. If you need to defend the corner, then choose the inside line and brake straight.
2. Its more un-gentlmen like to force someone off the track. If your on the outside, you will always lose out to the inside car, unless the inside car gives space. If you try to fight it you both will make contact, and both lose out. The nice drivers will give room to the outside line. Whether its fair/expected or is another argument.

Here are two examples.
https://www.formula1.com/en/video/2...d_Rosberg's_Austrian_collision_explained.html



3. I dont have a problem with cars locking up on the inside as long as you are alongside the outside car, and can make the apex. The key for the inside cars is not to overshoot and run off the track, causing contact in the process.

I'm just wondering where the Sheep station is that people are fighting for.

Marty, you know full well I asked you to put the discussion of "moving across the track during the braking zone" forward, but you've managed to turn this into a debate about who's right and who's wrong, as though there is always absolute distribution of blame (which we continue to disagree on).

Maybe if my aunty had bollocks she'd be my uncle Maybe if the world was flat, we'd be able to drive off the edge. Maybe your testimony of what I was thinking reeks of desperation (in my subjective opinion). Remember the several times prior when we didn't make contact? Of course not. 3 from 3, er sorry but that is hardly the case.

As far as the race is concerned, and as your 'expose' replay shows onboard, I'd already released the brake enough to rotate the tyres again by the time you hit me. Yes, this is a fact not subjective opinion:
"Marty reported contact with another vehicle Parkour. Impact speed: 16.683916"

The lock-up was a small error but I intended on taking a wider line in the first place. So unless I forced you off the track, then this discussion will inevitably go round and round in endless circles. You say I dive bomb, I say I didn't. Round and round we go...

Incident #1 in practice(!!!) (19th March 2018 vid) shows that I still stopped the car exactly where I intended to and made the apex, but the exit was rubbish - as I have admitted to several times - so I don't know why you keep bringing this up.

I can already smell the popcorn and I've made my position clear, so in the interest of forum harmony, let's just say that I agree with you marty on everything you say and move on from this

Question to the group: Should drivers be allowed to move across the track/block during the braking zone?

My gut feeling is that defending needs to happen prior to braking, as per this article here:
https://f1metrics.wordpress.com/2014/08/28/the-rules-of-racing/
Worth reading the whole article IMO and the case studies are interesting.

In particular I refer to:
20.5 Manoeuvres liable to hinder other drivers, such as deliberate crowding of a car beyond the edge of the track or any other abnormal change of direction, are not permitted.

Bit uncomfortable with such a simplistic statement, braking is almost never done purely in a straight line. But yes if the intention of the lead driver is to defend the inside line then the choice should be made clear before the braking zone as Marty has done in my view. The majority of errors the the presented video's seems to be locked brakes at inopportune points, a trait of the car more than driver errors

Cheers KoaStR, any chance of updated points table?

But half the fun is arguing about whose fault it is! The only shame was Anon was not close enough so we could blame him

If you keep deleting my posts why not delete them all, what was wrong with that post?

I ask this out of interest in finding the answer, not fueling further pointless tit for tat discussion about incidents. Where does the league stand on my question above?

I simply posted videos of clean moves in the race, yet its not on topic of the season thread? What are we allowed to discuss here can I ask please and why not delete all previous posts you deem to be off topic and we can just have a season ladder and 1 post.