GT-Sport [Completed] Super Production Championship Cup

Discussion in 'Community Events' started by THE_UNDER_STUDY, Sep 22, 2020.

  1. UrsineSaturn9

    UrsineSaturn9 World Champion Gold Member

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    Your feedback is important to us!
    Okay, it's been a week or so since the Super Production Championship Cup series has finished up and I think on the whole it has been a thoroughly enjoyable series and kudos to @THE_UNDER_STUDY and @Xtr3meNZer for getting this off the ground. There were a lot of elements that made for great racing and a great series, especially the success ballast system in my view, although everything is never perfect of course and I'm keen to hear any constructive feedback to apply to any future events (nothing confirmed at this stage, so hang tight).

    To kick things off, I'll start on the series format. Two race series of 9 rounds spread over 16 weeks (excluding holiday breaks) was indeed an ambitious endevour. The Rebel Cup was based on the individual (with 2 drop rounds - feel free to comment further on that also) while the Contender Cup was based on the team and the car and in my view the team aspect worked the best. Some teams ran in the Rebel Cup also, but I don't think the worked all that well in the end being primarily an individual-based series. The Contender Cup on the other hand worked really well and I'd be keen to participate in something similar in the future. I'd suggest something less intensive may work better, more like the previous SCNG series with races every 2 weeks.

    On the ballast system itself, in retrospect, I think the maximum and minimum ballast of +/-8% on the original BOP was maybe not quite enough as some of the faster guys were still very competitive on +8% weight while some of the slower drivers would still struggle to get up the results table at -8%. I'd suggest that +/-10% limits may be a better compromise.

    Now tyre wear is a funny one. I think 5x was just about right before the update that extended the pit stops, but would probably be better at something around 3x or 4x given the 2 stop would be uncompetetive at most tracks. I was very tempted to lower tyre wear after that update, but decided to leave it as is for the series. Fuel at 2x is pretty much spot on though IMO.

    Team selection was an interesting topic early on. Five captains were selected and a draft performed behind the scenes. That didn't go down quite so well, so perhaps a more open and transparent system next time? Happy to hear any suggestions.

    Whether Contender Cup is one room or two rooms is also up for debate, but I'd rather see a full room with all teams represented rather than two rooms with points based on race timing. If two rooms, perhaps there could be a cross-over point in terms of points for room 1 vs room 2 (e.g. say P1 in room 2 is equal points for P10 in room 1) so that if there are 7-10 teams competing there is an incentive for the teams to try and get into room 1 to maximise team points (haven't thought that one through at all, it is just an example to generate thought on the subject).

    As far as the cars and different drive trains, I think that was spot on. Perhaps the same TC2, TC4 and TCX classes next time, but chosen from different manufacturers?

    Initial BOP is always a tough one to get right. I think it was pretty close. The VW did get a slight nerf from the PD BOP, but arguably it could have gotten a bit more. After the update though and forced one-stops, the FF car didn't do as well (hence why lowering tyre wear is probably needed in future).

    Anyway, if I think of anything else I'll add it here and keen to hear your feedback also.
    Xtr3meNZer and Max Gassit like this.
  2. emmo46

    emmo46 Steward Team Raceonoz Gold Member Super ROOZ

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    Interesting to note that wins were equally shared in Contender at three per car. I think the VW cleaned up more podium places overall though. Most races were taken out by higher division guys (div 1 and higher order div 2) with the exception of GOOF who benefited from a selection of very low weight cars late in the season after low placings by the team early in the season. The genuine middle order of lower div 2 div 3 guys didn't fare well except for some good performances from Max Gassit.
  3. emmo46

    emmo46 Steward Team Raceonoz Gold Member Super ROOZ

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    I enjoyed both series but Rebel had a big drop off of numbers after mid season. The Contender cup was well subscribed but for a drop off in attendance by one team. A two room combination of teams and privateers maybe the way to go with the room allocation by colour the way it was done this season. I think six rounds run fortnightly with the use of each car limited to two for each driver whether in a team or not.
  4. UrsineSaturn9

    UrsineSaturn9 World Champion Gold Member

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    That suggests a tweak to the divisional ballast may be needed. Say, +5%, +3%, 0%, -3%, -6% for div 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
    And/or some kind of qually procedure to set the divisional ballast
  5. UrsineSaturn9

    UrsineSaturn9 World Champion Gold Member

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    I'd prefer to keep teams mandatory. Another idea for 2 rooms is stick to 5 teams with 3 drivers in room 1 and 2-3 drivers in room 2. After captains assigned and drivers sign-up, a draft process takes place with each team taking turns to select it's drivers. Kinda like the ACC PS4 seasons have been done in the past. Team drivers can move between room 1 or 2 at the discretion of the team captain
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  6. Apex_64

    Apex_64 Professional

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    I think the tweak in ballast needs to take ideas from the WET series. There are atleast 3 maybe 4 standards of drivers in Div1 alone. There needs to be a minimum of 10 ballast handicap levels to achieve as fair as possible ballast system for all.
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  7. gtkingx

    gtkingx Team Driver Gold Member

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    I'm not a fan of 2 rooms at all, it was rather disappointing to win a room only to find you ended up several places lower against drivers you couldn't even see to race against.

    Personally I think the Rebel cup attendance was vindication of the idea of having captains and them choosing their teams/being responsible for filling the grid as was done in Contender. I'd stick with this concept of having 2 separate series if it needs to be open to all, the Rebel cup was fun but having the grid full every round in Contender i think made it better and if it's going to be streamed i think that's important - imagine having the Rebel round at Dragon Trail streamed where we had 7 cars on the grid from what started as two full rooms!

    With the tyre wear, I'm not sure how you fix that to make a FF competitive. I think if you reduce the wear rate then in this season the Ford/Mazda would have just been a sprint race and the VW would have struggled anyway. Tbh it was a nice change to see the VW handicapped over the others near the end of the season as that was definitely, on average, the quickest car imo, even if the results don't show that. The high wear rates imo made this championship what it was, while speed was important it was tyre wear that really decided it over the season
  8. gtkingx

    gtkingx Team Driver Gold Member

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    I'm not sure how the WET series was done but I think it's a valid point, if I sneak into Div 1 for example, I'm a back marker, there's no way it's fair for me to be racing at the same weight as Risky, Twitchy etc
  9. gtkingx

    gtkingx Team Driver Gold Member

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    Did you look at both Rebel and Contender for this? Without having studied it closely, it seemed like the lower div drivers were more competitive in Rebel for some reason? I guess teams will always put their best driver in whatever car is going to be fastest at the particular track and then lower div drivers maybe got stuck driving a heavier car the next week that wasn't really competitive on the track anyway? In Rebel being a solo event and drivers picking their own cars for each track, it probably evened this out more which is why more lower div drivers were up the ladder?
  10. Viperzed

    Viperzed GT7 League Organiser Team Raceonoz Gold Member Super ROOZ

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    I'm gonna do my best to address this point by point lol.

    I actually really enjoyed the format. The way we had an effective practice night before the big dance was fantastic. I think the racing for the most part too was really fun but the two room system did not work at all. Ever. Unless we have two almost entirely full rooms then it's not worth it. That said, Nothing wrong with individual format if it stays that way and teams aren't introduced.

    As a Div 1 driver, The ballast system sucked. Yes we were floating towards the top for the most part but the race pace wasn't possible. Week in week out we would be outpaced towards the end of the race because our tire and fuel wear simply couldn't compete, No matter how poorly the other drivers are driving.

    Tire wear was fine if not maybe 1x too high, I think fuel was spot on.

    Team selection needs to be opened. Needs to happen in the general public, where everyone can see. By all means team captains can still pick and choose who they want, But maybe have people apply to teams? Could have a long long chat about how this would work.

    We could easily mix things up as far as cars go. It would close up the standings too, Jap, Euro and American Gr3, MR Gr4, Maybe even Gr3. World is your oyster! I think the Initial BOP was quite good, PD BOP is always there or there abouts and I know just how hard it can be to manually tweak any differences.
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  11. T F Eccles

    T F Eccles Professional Gold Member

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    You may also be seeing the difference in the two cups as to where the ballast was applied. In the RC, success ballast followed the driver, in the CC it followed the car.
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  12. ScottPye20

    ScottPye20 Rookie Gold Member

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    Most of the races I competed in were bad. I struggled with tyre wear and my pace was worse than drivers of a comparable skill level. In some cases I was sitting behind drivers that I'd consider to be slower than me. My only good race was at Maggiore in the Scirocco, where I managed to score a 4th. For the most part, I was not very competitive. However I think that stems from the fact that I was given a Div 2 weight penalty. When I qualified for Season 13 I barely scraped into Div 2 and fell back to Div 3 on a number of occasions, and the only reason why I was given the Div 2 weight penalty is because I ended up there for my last round that season. If I ran at Div 3 weight I'd probably be more competitive. I need a bit of a handicap to account for my lack of overall pace compared to those drivers at a similar skill level.
  13. Max Gassit

    Max Gassit Team Driver

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    Perhaps the charts compiled from the Sunday series would be useful in determining handicaps. Which would allow a variation of ballast for drivers within a division. eg top 5 @ +5%, next 5@ +4% etc
    Initially I thought the ballast following the car was a bit off but it does provide the opportunity for a team captain to use it to advantage.
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  14. T F Eccles

    T F Eccles Professional Gold Member

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    Indeed, which is what I did each week, compared the relative ballasts of each of my drivers in each of the cars, then fielded the combo that gave the best overall lowest ballasts. It got GOOF a hat-trick of wins.
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  15. emmo46

    emmo46 Steward Team Raceonoz Gold Member Super ROOZ

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    Your team had the most wins. You did a very good job.
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