S14 Round 3 Attendance

Discussion in 'Sunday Night Gran Turismo' started by Hatfield, Aug 10, 2017.

?

Can you attend S14 Round 3 on 13/8 ?

Poll closed Aug 14, 2017.
  1. Yes

    100.0%
  2. No

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Maybe

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Hatfield

    Hatfield Teams Championship Chairman Team Raceonoz

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    Please indicate if you are able to attend Season 14 Round 3 this Sunday

    If you choose an option in the poll and then this option later changes, please post here so I can take note.
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2017 at 4:07 PM
  2. StigsTC

    StigsTC Active Driver

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    I have been informed that, in a 50-50 braking duel, which is the only damn time I can actually battle anyone, that regardless of car or class difference I should still cede a corner instead of actually contest it.
    As such, I am no longer contesting Round 3, and withdrawing from the season.
  3. bmx_mtb_boy

    bmx_mtb_boy Member

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    Seriously? You're whinging because you wouldn't give me racing room when we were level pegging with me on the inside for the bus stop chicane? Did you not stop and think that if you'd let me go, then got a faster run out the 2nd part of the chicane (knowing you, you would have), you would have had a really good draft for the rest of the lap? If you'd actually bothered to redress the position, I wouldn't have protested.

    I'm not gonna hold a grudge against you for this. If I can make it through 5 seasons without an incident that should be protested, then I'm either really lucky or everyone, including you is really good to race with. Either way, I'll accept the stewards group decision and move on.
  4. StigsTC

    StigsTC Active Driver

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    Mate I had 4 tenths on you through bus stop every lap. Ceding position in the Lexus in the only place it has an advantage is insanity when we were dead level on entry, if the car/class difference doesn't make a difference in the braking zone and corners but it does in the straights, then why am I racing?
    I don't mind being told I stuffed up trying to leave space, but being told I should cede the corner when I had the ability to win the duel is absolute BS.
    This is a decision that has been made, will continue to be made, and am not interested in participating with further this season.
  5. apex2691

    apex2691 Member

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    I had my race ruined by 3 ordinary incidents from the same offender at Bathurst in Round 1, Season 11. No redress for any of the three incidents. I have had 3 incidents with StigTC in 5 seasons. He has redressed twice for me and the other was a genuine racing incident. I honestly believe 1 of those redresses cost him a win in ROC last season. Sometimes it is pointless to protest against someone when they finish behind you in a race as there is no gain for you, only penalty for the offender. I think you just might be very lucky bmx.
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2017
  6. bmx_mtb_boy

    bmx_mtb_boy Member

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    That race I remember for being absolutely crazy Apex. Between 1 or 2 other ruining my race and my own mistakes, I never bothered to protest that one. I later got well and truly put in my place that season.

    I'm not saying StigsTC is a dirty driver. Far from it, I've had quite a few memorable races against both of you. Maybe letting go would have helped both of us, but hindsight is a wonderful/annoying thing. Oh and at the end of the race, I tried the same thing StigsTC tried on me on another person and I came off worse, trying to make up for a similar problem. Fair enough I suppose since I didn't leave them room. I'm beginning to understand why it's always been one make for the Sunday league races now though.
    StigsTC likes this.
  7. B-Spec Bob

    B-Spec Bob Active Driver

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    Also:
    Source: https://f1metrics.wordpress.com/2014/08/28/the-rules-of-racing/
    KoAStR likes this.
  8. Hatfield

    Hatfield Teams Championship Chairman Team Raceonoz

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    I am sorry to hear that @StigsTC

    Hope to see you next season
  9. StigsTC

    StigsTC Active Driver

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    I'll be there.
    bmx_mtb_boy likes this.
  10. Hatfield

    Hatfield Teams Championship Chairman Team Raceonoz

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    So is it ok to switch you to a reserve?
  11. StigsTC

    StigsTC Active Driver

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    I will be there next season.
    I will not contest the remainder of this season (Season 14), if that means moving to the reserve list, then yes.

    To be clear to @bmx_mtb_boy , I was not opposed to the right of protest or being penalised for getting it wrong. My frustration with not being able to really battle this season reached breaking point when the steward decision stated that I should have ceded the corner before even contesting it regardless of car/class differences. The car can't fight in a straight line, and apparently the rules are such I may not fight in the corners. At what point do I actually get to race and battle? If I don't actually get to race then I am only wasting my time, complaining, getting in the way of everyone else and ruining their fun. So I've withdrawn from the season.
  12. B-Spec Bob

    B-Spec Bob Active Driver

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    You're missing some context from the incident:
    1. There is only 1 racing line through the tight bus stop section.
    2. You did not defend the inside line.
    3. @bmx_mtb_boy had pulled up along side and even a little past you before the braking zone.
    Therefore you lost the right to claim the racing line for that corner/chicane.
  13. StigsTC

    StigsTC Active Driver

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    By this logic @ssman244 should never have made the amazing pass around the outside of 130R at Suzuka in Race 2. It was a fantastic move and it was just great racing.
    If we do not allow racers to race than what is the point?
    Arguing that the inside line is all it takes may work in a single car class, but you can't ignore car difference which afforded me 4 tenths through that section. It also meant that, if I defended the inside, I'd have lost the slipstream off adro and BMX would have been far enough ahead on the outside to argue he had the corner. So I stay on the outside in the slipstream, and still don't have the corner. Where do I get to battle? Where do I get to have any fun? I committed to braking and corner duel when one finally comes up and I'm told that it shouldn't be done. If it shouldn't be done, there is no racing for me to have this season.
    KoAStR likes this.
  14. B-Spec Bob

    B-Spec Bob Active Driver

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    Not quite the same situation because @ssman244 wasn't defending from you on lap 6 in race 2 at Suzuka:
    • He was overtaking you.
    • He had more momentum from slip streaming you on the back straight.
    • His nose was just ahead of yours going into the corner.
    All these factors make it a legitimate attempt at an overtake, albeit a very risky one in which it almost went pear shaped because:
    1. You prevented him from reaching the apex, which you had the right to do as he was not more than half a car length ahead going into the corner.
    2. This forced him to run wide towards the exit where;
    3. His line took him right up to the edge of the track but;
    4. Your car's nose was still slightly overlapping his rear bumper and;
    5. You did not leave a car's width on the exit;
    6. So he almost binned it over the astroturf.
    [​IMG]
    It's debatable whether ssman's momentum would have taken him off the track all by himself or whether he had a helping, possibly laggy hand from you. That would be something only you could answer with proof from your own replay to confirm or deny this.
    However had he spun off track and you were not able to produce counter proof that you had indeed left a car's width on the exit, then you would be considered at fault if such an incident had occurred.
    You make it seem like @bmx_mtb_boy would have definitely won the racing line into that chicane had you defended the inside line, but that's all theoretical now that it didn't happen. Even so, he still would have needed to be at least half a car's length ahead to properly claim the racing line. Anything less and he would've had to yield, just as you should've, because then you would've been in the attacking position on the inside line. As tight as 130R is at Suzuka, it doesn't compare to the bus stop at Daytona which is definitely 1 car at a time, should both cars stay within the track limits.
    So what if the car can't fight in a straight line? You have a steering wheel to turn the car too. In case you missed it, all the other IS350s finished in the top 5 positions in race 1. Sure the qualifying positions played a big part in those results, especially on a track like Daytona, but whose fault is it when you only decided to do your first laps during qualifying? Sounds like you need to pick your battles better because ssman and I were having lots of fun and battles in both races.
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2017
  15. StigsTC

    StigsTC Active Driver

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    Rebuttal and closing words:
    You stated that at Daytona I didn't defend the inside line so I didn't have a right to the corner and shouldn't have contested it.
    Then you stated that when I defended the inside line, it still didn't matter because it only mattered if I left space because it was rightly contested by my opponent.
    Sort of speaks for itself there on how bias works.
    IS350 + Slipstream, Garaiya no slipstream = Garaiya 2 tenths faster down the straight, dead level at braking zone.
    IS350 no slipstream, Garaiya + slipstream = IMPOSSIBLE TO TELL WE WILL NEVER KNOW.
    Absolute rubbish, that's easily the 3 metres one needs to be more than half a length ahead. You can try to win every last argument but you are stretching far too far here to dismiss this so quickly.
    I tried to use the steering wheel Bob. Not sure if you noticed, that's what got me in trouble. I got told not to use it and just give up ahead of time. You can sass me my man, but for at least the next 4 weeks I'm still reigning Division 1 Champion, you might say I know how to use a wheel.
    As for/not running laps before QP, I have had fantastic fun battles in the previous seasons showing up entirely untested. It was probably for 8th position, but it was still damn good fun. Season 12 and Season 13 saw me actually drive the car ahead of the race, and holy crap I won things! But winning isn't my benchmark for fun, a good battle driven as hard as you can is always going to be more memorable than a than a straight forward win. Great on the record sheet, but context has always meant more to me than only what the record book tells us.
    Hungary 1997 will look like really good day in a bad year for 1996 World Champion Damon Hill, starting 3rd and finishing 2nd in an otherwise pretty rubbish season. But the story tells us that while leading the race rather comfortably, a hydraulics failure cost him a wildly unlikely race win after driving the wheels off the car to be in with a shot, being overtaken by Villeneuve on the last lap to finish 9 seconds behind. If you weren't there or heard the story, you'd have thought it was just another boring Hungarian Grand Prix.
    So I've raced Rooz for fun, and to be serious for the title. While rewarding to accomplish your goals and win races, busting ass every week stops being fun. I do Rooz to have fun, have battles, to dive into corners side by side and let the racing happen. This is apparently not a season where I can do that.
    So I bid this season, and this thread, adieu.
    Good luck to everyone remaining for the season.
  16. apex2691

    apex2691 Member

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  17. Zachery

    Zachery Professional Driver Gold Member

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    Have a look at yourselves. Get over it and move on. At the very least go dribble in pm to each other instead of undertaking this in public because it looks a bit pathetic.
  18. its-benny-racer

    its-benny-racer Active Driver Gold Member

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    As an outside observer, I think we can learn a lot about what you should or shouldn't do in what is effectively a multi-div, multi-class race/season format.

    It just seems a bit like throwing Vettel, Hamilton, Ricciardo and Verstappen back into a Torro Rosso or Haas to see how well they go when they have the handicap of a slower car. It might be interesting to watch for 1 exhibition race, but you wouldn't want to see that every week. You want to see the fastest drivers in the fastest cars (or equal cars)

    Multi-class is only going to work well when there is a clear separation in performance between classes, so they are sharing the same track, but they aren't racing eachother.
  19. Zachery

    Zachery Professional Driver Gold Member

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    Agreed that the difference in cars is probably not great enough. Good example is lmp and gt3 on the same track. Works very well because the lmp is miles ahead in corner speed and can easily get by, even around the outside if need be
    apex2691 likes this.
  20. apex2691

    apex2691 Member

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    All posts here were constructive criticism or difference in race craft opinion. Then along comes Zachery to have a personal dig as usual with nothing constructive to say. Check in the mirror Zachery to have a look at yourself, before being the lord of judgement.