Season 12 - Division 1

Discussion in 'GTLOZ Past Seasons' started by Hatfield, Dec 8, 2016.

  1. stucar17

    stucar17 Moderator Team Raceonoz Gold Member Super ROOZ

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    GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT TO ALL DRIVERS.

    Guys, i have to make a comment on what appears to be a growing trend in our community, and to be honest, it worries me.

    Over the last month we have collated the PRE-EXISTING rules that our community had run by over the last 5 or 6 years. We had run by these rules in 13 seasons of GT5, 12 seasons of GT6 and now 6 seasons of PCARS and AC.

    That collation included making a few adjustments, as well as implementing the stewards group. This was supposed to make things easier for everyone to understand, and easier for us, as a community, and mod team, to get things sorted quickly and efficiently.

    It was NEVER intended to become a way for people to make petty protests, taking up the time of guys on the stewards group.

    Rules are rules, i get it......but i have to say i have never protested against someone for a trivial matter, that has NO EFFECT on the race result of me or those i am racing against.

    This community has thrived over the last few years, driven by a large number of people looking for the same thing.....clean and competitive racing. The majority of us didn't get involved to look through hours of footage to see if someone 'might' have exceeded track limits a couple of times, 30 seconds up the road !

    Its this simple guys.....Everyone is expected to race clean. Being 'racers' we all know what is expected of us on the track.

    The rules are there for all to see, in their 'newly collated' glory ! Are they perfect...nope, but show me a race series in the world where after an incident the organizers and racers all get in for a group hug.

    I am going to make this request once only.
    Before you protest, and ultimately take up the time of people who have other real life commitments, PLEASE ASK YOURSELF, is my protest for a genuine "RACE CHANGING" incident or is it being pedantic, for something that has no bearing on any driver or race results ?

    As a mod team, we can't win. On the one hand we are accused of bias, and not being 'professional' enough. On the other hand, we are accused of being too heavy handed in dishing out penalties for 'a game'.

    I will uphold your right to protest BAD DRIVING every day of the week. As i have always said, every driver here has the right to drive knowing that those around them will do the best they can to race cleanly. I will also uphold the mod team's right to make decisions in the best interest of the community, without bias or favour.

    This is what we (ROOZ) strive for, and we will continue to do so.

    Please take a deep breath and reflect on what you want out of ROOZ, and more importantly, how can you contribute to a great community. If your contribution is 'just' to race in the way you are expected then that's ok.......If you want to do more, then even better.

    If you don't want to work with the systems used for a combined 30+ seasons and 5 years, then drivers are more than welcome to find what they want elsewhere.

    With so many drivers and sponsors we must be doing something right.

    Now get on with it.
    Stu
  2. Hatfield

    Hatfield GT7 League & Teams Championship Organiser Team Raceonoz Gold Member Super ROOZ

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    R6 : 19th March - Special Stage Route 5 Clubman - 56 LAPS -
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    TRACK LIMITS : As per our rules and regs drivers must keep 2 wheels on the ripple strips or white lines at all times. We all make a mistake or 2, but if you are caught "continually and obviously" running outside the track limits to gain advantage you will be penalized by the stewards group. LUCKILY the track limits are the walls here!

    CONTACT : CONTACT IS TO BE AVOIDED AT ALL TIMES. If you make contact with the car in front, and gain an advantage you MUST REDRESS and give the place back. Failure to do so could result in a penalty from the stewards group.

    PASSING : When a car pulls along side you are EXPECTED to give racing room. Contact in being aggressive trying to defend will be looked at, better to give room and continue the fight.

    TURN 1 LAP 1 : Dont need to be a rocket scientist to know that you cant win the race in the first corner, but you sure as hell can lose it for yourself and / or ruin another drivers races by either being too aggressive OR too defensive into T1. Use your brains here and give room to those around you. Back half of the grid need to brake a little earlier and not cause chaos with kamikaze passes.

    PIT ENTRY / EXIT : Both are straightforward, however DO NOT swerve across the front of other cars on entry. Drivers should try to keep left exiting the final turn for a clean entry into pit lane.
    On EXIT, drivers should be aware of fast drivers approaching. Please try to stay left into T1-2 if there is traffic approaching, basically don't swerve right across the road coming out of the pits.
    Pit lines WILL NOT be enforced

    BLUE FLAGS : Please observe blue flags, and move out of the way of faster cars if you are being lapped. Be aware of the leaders coming up on you, and move out of the way as soon as possible. Best to get off the race line, and with a small lift let them go. Failure to observe blue flags WILL result in a penalty. NEVER battle with the leaders if you are going to be lapped, and if in a battle of your own, LET THE LEADERS THROUGH FIRST before continuing your battle with the other driver(s) for position.

    STEWARDS GROUP AND RACE PROTESTS : This season we will be using the new stewards group for racing infringements and protests. Many thanks to the guys who have put their hands up to volunteer. The specific Stewards group thread will have all the info in it, regarding rules and regs, and the protest procedure. Please read it and understand how it works...we are still to link in the collated rules and regs.........You have until 12PM monday night to submit a protest, and 12PM Tuesday night for your evidence to be submitted.
    http://www.raceonoz.com/forums/index.php?threads/stewards-group-official-thread.2593/

    SAVE YOUR REPLAY ! : Please remember to save your replay after the race. If you want to protest anything, we can only act on the info we have in front of us, failure to do so will not enable us to view things from your game perspective, and with some of the issues we have seen, this could have a massive influence on how the stewards group will view and rule on any incident.

    Shamelessly copied from @stucar17 and edited accordingly
    StigsTC likes this.
  3. stucar17

    stucar17 Moderator Team Raceonoz Gold Member Super ROOZ

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    Guys, just a very quick reply to my above post....been an interesting few days, with quite a few replies and PMs with a range of views expressed. I am sure you are all sick of hearing from me, but in light of a few discussions i have had after posting i wanted to make a couple of very quick comments.

    1. As stated originally, my post WAS NOT directed at anyone in particular. I have had 3 members think it was directed at them, and can i again say that it was a 'general' comment to all drivers.
    2. My post WAS NOT intended to offend or upset anyone. If it did, i apologise.
    3. While i stand by my comments, in hindsight, i could have perhaps have worded a little differently to make my point, which was, that the time of the stewards group is voluntary, and they were (over the opening 5 rounds) seeming to be dealing with quite a few protests that perhaps didn't need to be made.
    4. I will say again, that everyone has the right to protest an incident that they feel has affected the race result.
    5. As a mod, i personally don't want to see anyone leave our community. If you have a concern, question or want to discuss something PLEASE send me, or someone on the mod team, a PM so we can discuss in a rational way to come to a solution.

    The stewards group for this season has been an interesting exercise, and it has reinforced to me that regardless of the decision made from them, or ultimately, from the appeals group, there is generally 1 person not happy !
    All i can ask is that drivers respect their decision (even if you dont agree with it). The difficulty of judging some of the incidents has been evidenced by the difference of opinion even in the stewards group ! It's Not an easy job.

    We are a large group of people now, different ages, abilities and personalities.
    I think sometimes that gets a little lost with the red mist of race nights.

    Again, we want ALL members to have a great experience here, if you feel the need to discuss something please don't hesitate to PM me so we can sort things out for the betterment of everyone. We may not agree, but at least we can have the conversation.

    Stu
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2017
  4. Crunch

    Crunch Professional

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    Last edited: Mar 19, 2017
  5. Zachery

    Zachery Professional

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    Russel got shimmied off, ass slipped on the grass which shot him into you i would think. Therefore its not exactly russels fault cos he was sorta ran off the track?
    Apex_64 likes this.
  6. Apex_64

    Apex_64 Professional

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    The incident I think was caused by the third party involved (not Let's Party).
    I think Bryan could be confused, as that incident is similar to one last season involving you Crunch.
    But we all see things differently, so I could be completely wrong on both.
  7. JonoStan96

    JonoStan96 Legend Gold Member Super ROOZ

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    Hi all,

    With 2 broken wheels I'm going to have to withdraw from the last 2 races of the season.
    Is it possible for a spectator to save replays if they are in the lobby from the start?
  8. StigsTC

    StigsTC Professional

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    I think the point being made is the incident thread is showing us what racing caused what outcome but it doesn't explain *why* clearly.
    For example the Bryan/Crunch Lap1 - "Dismissed as racing incident". Having watched all 3 angles of it you understand it was a lag-bump and not a bump and run, but it would be nice for that to have been written.
    Dismissed as racing incident - Contact caused by lag and not by drivers' actions.
    What does "Dismissed on appeal" mean? It provides even less information as to why an incident was or was not penalised, as it no longer clarifies anything.

    Jono - yes, but having a spectator at the lobby reset after the finish can cause instability and kick people out of the lobby. Would suggest racing a controller but there is really no point in this car, unless you race softs/mediums so it actually turned, but people would get upset. Your connection is pretty solid for compatibility issues so you might get away with spectating at race end without issue.
  9. warrior2167

    warrior2167 Professional Super ROOZ

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    JonoStan96 likes this.
  10. JonoStan96

    JonoStan96 Legend Gold Member Super ROOZ

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    Dismissed on appeal means the initial decision was appealed by the defendant, and then was overturned by the mods. i.e: the SG collectively thought there should have been a penalty, the defendant did not accept the decision, and then the mods decided to not apply a penalty.

    I had a go on controller and the laps times I set would see me lapped well before halfway.
    Kieran_B33 likes this.
  11. arakasi-

    arakasi- Professional

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    I have a G27 in vgc sitting here (Qld , so not much good for tonight) doing nothing, if your interested Jono. Not much good for your F1 though
    AOCleaner74 and JonoStan96 like this.
  12. StigsTC

    StigsTC Professional

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    This still doesn't explain WHY no penalty was given.
    "No driver deemed significantly at fault as Driver X did Y and Driver C did D, both contributing to contact and no penalty was deemed necessary."

    And yeah, being on a controller in a race car on stock settings is all but pointless. Few exceptions to that but with the R35 TC being understeer king not much you can do. As I said, I would recommend it, but there is just no point.
  13. JonoStan96

    JonoStan96 Legend Gold Member Super ROOZ

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    The incidents are posted and left to your own interpretation. As of right now I don't believe I am able to divulge such information.

    Cheers mate but I'm looking to go for something widely compatible :)
    Plus I'm missing next week anyway due to the Grand Prix.
  14. StigsTC

    StigsTC Professional

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    I thought the point of the stewards thread was to give clarity and transparency to the process. We are now aware of more protests than just our own/the successful ones, but we still aren't getting a clear explanation of WHY outcomes were reached.
    Crunch likes this.
  15. Crunch

    Crunch Professional

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    It's a joke if the incidents are seriously presented for your own interpretation if according to the rules, the moderators hold an exclusive right to interpret the rules and no other person's interpretation has any bearing. According to the rules, the stewards have no power of interpretation and are simply meant to use a crystal ball to work out how the mods would interpret. But that's according to a strict legal formalist interpretation of the rules, and formalist interpretations here at ROOZ has proven to be just plain wrong or misleading. People just do what they feel like instead. There is a fundamental 'rule of law' problem and it's dumb.

    I didn't touch Russell, yet he's allowed to keep for his foot on the throttle endangering me because he has no racecraft and foresight to concede the position. The responsibility to avoid contact applies to everyone equally (from memory 5A(d), yet Russell didn't bail onto the grass did he?

    There are so many reasons I could give for why this was a terrible decision, but I'm over it.

    As the great Tommy Wiseau said, 'they betrayed me, they didn't keep their promise, they trick me and I don't care anymore.'
  16. B-Spec Bob

    B-Spec Bob Team Driver

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    Crunch's little bump at 8:43.776 total race time unsettled the rear of my car and the extra forward momentum caused me to run wider out of T2 than planned as I made a steering correction for it. This is subtle but quite visible if you look for it at 2:06 in the video.
  17. Crunch

    Crunch Professional

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    Thanks Bob; that's all the explanation I needed.

    I still think the track re-entry was horrendously dangerous but that can be the end of this discussion in terms of my responses (other people are free to have their final word if they so desire, but this will be my last).

    Here's a final example:
    we have a rule that says 'No overtaking is to take place in the pits'.
    I think that rule gets broken every single race as cars are overtaken from the pits as other cars are in their pit boxes. Just another example of how dumb these rules truly are. The person who wrote that... I can't even begin to comprehend.
    *end*
  18. Hatfield

    Hatfield GT7 League & Teams Championship Organiser Team Raceonoz Gold Member Super ROOZ

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    @JonoStan96 you could start rear of grid and immediately park up... unless quitting the race after it starts still allows you to save replay
  19. B-Spec Bob

    B-Spec Bob Team Driver

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    You just need to be in the lobby from race start to finish to save replay.
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  20. REVO_Bryan

    REVO_Bryan Professional Super ROOZ

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    Jaycie, StigsTC and warrior2167 like this.