Makes an apology then says he will do it again? Kinda pointing out he is making a very empty apology isn't it? Personally I'm going to enjoy a similar scenario like this again with Vettel being told to slow down, doesn't and then takes out himself, and probably Webber with him. Be good to see the team just get the s with Vettel big time. Probably won't happen ever again but still I can hope.
http://live.autosport.com/commentary.php/id/573 i dont know if anyone can really be bothered to go through these, but they're interesting enough to look at if you can. seems webber had the upper hand in overall quicker pace, but in the long runs they're saying it was vettel.
Today on the news they were still going on about it saying Vettel said "Mark didnt deserve to win". Kinda funny.... I love the spice. It was sort of disrespectful during the race when vettel said over the radio "He's to slow!". That stuck in my head, NOONE likes being called "To slow" whether its a video game or real life. Mark would of been fuming when he heard that after the race. If mark is out of the champs near the end of the season and Vettel is in with a shot. I hope mark takes him out and denies Vettel the champs and then leaves red bull and retires to get abit of revenge....that would be news worthy I loved watching there battle though it was great stuff, personally I dont like team orders. Should be "battle it out but bring the cars home in one piece".
Would've been better to see if Mark never turned down his engine to 'cruise'. Then we would've really seen who deserved to win.
i dont mind team orders-when they're acceptable. i think RBR had a decent reason for malaysia, they weren't very sure on tyres, they want to save engines and there were only 10 or so laps to go. theres a big risk for them to come together. they've always been around, even in the 50s, i dont really mind them tbh
either way you ca't get rid of team orders anyway, when they got banned back in the 2000s all it meant is the fans are in the dark when the teams use them, as they use sneaky codes and such instead of just saying exactly their intentions.
to be honest, webber ignored them in silverstone 2011, but i can semi-understand that. i dont know whether its bias or something lol, but vettel had what, a 90 point lead in the WDC? whats the point in that? that wasnt a pre-race agreement either. this was a pre-race agreement and vettel ignored it, completely backtracking on what hes said multiple times these past couple of weeks. there has been times when he has helped him, 2010 canadian gp, he was told to hold station, even with vettels gearbox problems. then later on in the season, even with webber almost comfortably leading the 2010 WDC with only a few races to go, but they never told vettel to move over for webber, where did their change of heart come from? if they were a team like ferrari or something, things couldve turned out quite different at the end of that year..... they have been and probably will always be a part of F1, a lot of people like to conveniently talk-up the old times as if they had no team orders when in fact, it probably happened just as much.....
Old times it happened much more to the point where the first drivers car tended to be a completely different spec to the second driver, back in the old days when teams had less budgets they could only afford to do one car at a time they would just aim it all towards one driver, and even in some cases if say the 1st driver had to retire they would swap the 2nd drivers car and put the 1st driver in that to finish the race.
Yea I think we all remember that famous incident from a few years ago with Massa and Alonso when team orders were banned. Over the Radio "Alonso is faster than you". It was pretty bleeding obvious what was going on...but still. If Vettel had of obyed team orders it would of been a precession for the 1/2 spot and for the 3/4 spot with the merceedes orders as well. Boring... really a hollow victory for the driver. You want to earn your victory not get it given. For me I question why wasnt Webber allowed to trun up his engine to the same level as Vettel? Was he tight on fuel? He should of just cranked it up to the same level and let the best man win. As much as a prick Vettel is I think he is the faster driver, he's younger, more raw ect. EDIT heres the vision of the Silver stone 2011 race Zamps refer too, just for interests sake. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYPCS3VXxGY
thats what i was referring to musta, like when they retired collins and put fangio in etc. the point was, it still existed back then. i dont see how it wouldve been a hollow victory for webber, i wouldve said its been pretty hollow for vettel considering he was fighting against someone with a turned-down engine, and it seemed webber let the position go when he was eventually overtaken at turn 3, im surprised he didnt push vettel further when he had the inside line. webber had earnt the victory for 80% of the race and theres no reason to suggest he couldnt have done it for the rest. im guessing no-one at RBR was predicting this sort of scenario (even given their pre-race agreement), considering webber was 5th at the start. i hate that video, "be wise now, be wise". well he wasn't very wise 3 weeks ago, was he? in that video, webber even backs out at 30 seconds, this seemed to be more of a psychological thing than properly intending to overtake.
I think the hollow victory goes to the bloke who sneaks up on his team-mate and blindsides him. You can hear the different engine notes in the two cars in the replay. I may be biased, ahh am biased, but I feel Webber didn't believe Seb was going to attack until he was half way past him. By then it was too late to fight with the engine wound back, tyres were probably below perfect temperature and he would have had his engineer screaming in his ear, "No more bullsh1t you two!!". For Vettel to come out and say he felt he was faster (and no matter what would have ignored the team orders), so he passed Webber and he justifiably won, AND as such Webber didn't deserve to win...really, grow up. Without the team orders to reduce engine power and conserve tyres I doubt Webber would have let him eat up the 3 sec or so advantage he had quite to easily. Yes, Vettel is by far the faster driver, but he also by far the bigger #^*#!!!!! If Webber gets the chance to lead again this year, he now knows the precocious bratwurst will try everything to push past. I just hope he doesn't get obsessed with revenge and ruins the rest of his (most likely final) season. Anyway, good to have the F1 back, it's been a long off-season. Looking forward to China!!
Yea I guess what you and Anon say is true, you can look at it from both point of views. I just feel as Aussie's we can "Muddle colly" Mark abit. He's a exellent/great/World class?A+ driver how ever you want to put it........ But he's not quite up there with the all time greats. Even in the current era I would rate at least 5 drivers higher than him in a one make series Alonso Seb Hamilton Button Kimi Like Anon said Im loving it, really bring some emotion back into F1.. In reality its good publicity for F1 Incopriated. Theve been in the News a fair bit and no doubt world wide TV audience figures will be up next round. Anyway sorry for dribbling, friday and some happy herbs You nailed Sebs posistion on the matter. Thats exactly how he justifies it in his mind.
im not saying he's the best of the best and of course he's not up there with the all time greats (only two maybe three could be in a top20 list i reckon out of your 5 tek), but it wouldnt have been that hollow of a victory really. i can think of many more, if any of them deserve to be called hollow for that matter. in a one make series would be interesting, i reckon webber might be higher up, i wouldnt definitely put button above webber, i see no reason why he would be.
I don't really agree with that. I would probably put Button on par with Webber. They both have had success with vastly superior machines, and smart strategical decisions, but if you put everyone in identical cars I think they would both fall well down the order. I am a Button fan, and am well aware that he is probably one of the luckiest World Champions in history. Both Webber and Button lack that "killer instinct" that guys like Alonso, Hamilton, and Vettel possess.
thats why i said i wouldnt definitely put button higher up than webber, thats what i was trying to imply lol. who knows, someone in the midfield could surprise vettel or something, if only we could find out.
I took "wouldn't definitely" as "definitely wouldn't". My bad. Also the "i see no reason why he would be" seemed like you were pointing out that Button would not be above Webber.
haha i shouldve been more explicit, but tbh i dont see why he would be, like you said it would appear they would be similar but its way too theoretical to debate lol.
